Showing posts with label Chad Hoover. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Chad Hoover. Show all posts

Wilderness System Thresher Thoughts (So Far)

photo via Chad Hoover
ICAST is proving to be a surprise factory as normal but one of the hot chatter items this year hasn't been much of a surprise at all. The Wilderness Systems Thresher (prototype) has had three videos released already showing off its ability to climb the surf and handle foamy chop. A few photos have surfaced as well.

The Stability Myth: Standing in a Kayak

Standing is the new thing.

In kayaks that is. And frankly, it's not all that new. As people flock to the sport they see commercials, ads, pictures and videos of people standing up and fishing from a variety of kayaks. I've seen almost every major manufacturer release an ad for one of their kayaks where someone is standing up and fishing. It's the hot issue. If a company doesn't have a kayak that they sell for standing and fishing they are behind the times.

All that being said, these pictures and videos can be misleading. The design of the kayak, its hull, its width and the water conditions all play into stability so that a fisherman can stand. Not enough people, especially those shopping for a "stand and fish" kayak are looking at the biggest variable: the fisherman.

People are all built differently. People also have different levels of balance. I can stand and fish on an Outback, a Slayer, a Coosa, a Ride, a Commander and a ton of others but that doesn't mean you can.

Drew Gregory from Jackson has jumped and spun around on the deck of at least one Jackson in a video. Here is the not-so-secret secret. Drew is a compact, fit guy who works in the outdoors and is in great shape. His balance is impeccable. I've seen more than a couple of people turtle a Jackson. It's more than just kayak specs that make a kayak standable. It's you too.

But wait! I can hear some of you who have been watching a different set of videos. "I'm built more like Chad Hoover and he can stand in all of the Wilderness kayaks" you say. Well, yes, Chad can. Did you also know he is retired from the Navy? I think he may have the boats, balance and water thing down better than Joe from down the street. Wildys can turtle too. All of them can.

I've seen a Hobie Pro Angler turtle and not in the ocean. It was on an calm day on a small lake. It's about the fisherman too, not just the kayak.

So what am I saying?

If you want to stand, here are some things to think about.

If you are standing on a sit on top kayak, you have to balance from your ankles up. That is a lot of core balance for a lot of people. If you are big in the shoulders or big in the belly, this is going to prove more difficult. Slight framed folks and shorter folks will generally have an easier time with this.

Think about balancing a broom handle, vertically on your palm. It's difficult, right? Add a tennis ball to the middle of the broom handle or to the top and it becomes more difficult. Weight across your body that is not evenly distributed (beer gut) will be more difficult to keep in balance when the balance point is further away.

So how do we make it easier? A few things.

Having a wider platform to stand on makes this easier. It is easier to balance when your feet are able to be shoulder width apart and slightly more. Most adults have a shoulder width wider than 20" so a deck that only allows 20" with a total kayak width of 28" will be more difficult to balance on. As the width of the total kayak gets wider, even if the deck isn't as wide it will become easier to balance. The ideal situation is a wide deck and a wide kayak. Finding a 28"+ wide deck with a 32" or larger total width will help.

Also consider the seat. More people that I have seen turtle have done so when getting into or out of the seat. A seat that is up off the deck will be easier to gain your balance. Is it easier to stand up from the floor or from a chair? The chair, right? Keep this in mind when shopping. Even a couple of inches gained is a big change.

What if we could change the balance point from your ankles? You can! The problem with kayaks is in most circumstances as they get wider, they get slower and more sluggish to paddle (the obvious exceptions are pedal and motorized kayaks). This is where hybrid kayaks come in. The Commander from Wilderness Systems and the Ultimate from Native are hybrid kayaks that are part sit in and part sit on. They look more like a canoe than a kayak to some (though the hull design is different). When you stand in one of these kayaks you have a sidewall to brace your leg against. This raises the balance point from your ankle to almost your knee. It's almost as if you've made yourself shorter. The amount of body you now have to balance is lessened and the 31" wide Commander offers more stability to most people than a 33" wide sit on top. Not only that but it generally paddles faster as well in the longer models.

Now that you are either confused, angry or nodding your head in agreement, let me offer a suggestion. If you want to stand and fish out of the kayak you are shopping for, stop looking at marketing material. Find a demo day near you or a get together or Boondoggle and go try to do this yourself. Find out how hard or easy it is to stand in all of the models you are looking at. Demo. Demo. Demo. If you absolutely can't do that and you have to shop online by specs and videos only, look at total width and width of the cockpit. The bigger they are the more stable. Is it a guarantee that you can stand? No. Will it be more likely? Yes.

It will almost always be easier to stand in a kayak that is 40" wide than one that is 20" wide. Just keep in mind the balance points and demo if at all possible and you should be good to go.

If you want to stand in a kayak, make sure you can before you buy it!

Are Sponsorships Not What You Think?

Chad Hoover
Last week when I wrote the "Want to Be Sponsored?" piece,  I heard from people in 32 different countries. Some were mad, some angry, some thought I was clueless, some agreed but what became evidently clear is that the definitions of the different levels were muddy and in some cases not even known. 

Luckily, Chad Hoover who has worn hats as a business owner, tv show host, manufacturers rep, pro staff director, kayak fisherman and brand rep chimed in. He saw what I saw: misconceptions and half truths. Chad wanted to give an outline of what the different levels were from a business and manufacturer rep's standpoint as well as someone who had climbed through them all. It may not hold true for all companies but it does for a lot of them. Actually most of them.

You want the inside scoop? The real deal from Hoover himself? Here it is.

We'll start first with definitions.

Level 1- Field Staff

At this level, a fisherman will typically get some stickers, maybe a hat or shirt and a discount. Usually the discount is less than 20%. There are few expectations for these folks except to say good things about the product.

Level 2- Pro Deal

At this level you are doing some significant things for a company. Maybe it's blogging, videos, pictures, social media and some trade shows. You conduct yourself in a manner consistent with company values and may do a few seminars or speaking events. The discount increases at this level and is usually 20-30%.

Level 3- Pro Staff

One of the most over used terms in the industry, Pro Staff means just that. You are a Pro on the company's Staff. People that work at headquarters know your name even if you don't work in that city. They seek out your advice on product development and deployment. You have a public presence and insider information. You know what new stuff is coming down the pipe well before the public and most of the time, you've been involved with it in some form or fashion. You get good discounts (30-50%) and some free product as well depending on the company.

Level 4- Sponsored

The pinnacle of deals for fishermen. Sponsored guys get significant amounts to all product for free. They are also compensated for entry fees, appearance fees, stipends for days at trade shows, get travel fees and most importantly cut a check for fishing in a kayak. Hoover says there are fewer than 10 of these folks in the country in kayak fishing. 


Let's talk about getting a deal. Lots of fishermen want a deal. Who wouldn't like free product? So can you get a deal? Maybe Field Staff or a Pro Deal? Sure. Can you get sponsored? Sure. BUT... Let me say it again. BUT... you have to work to get there.

Do you want to know the truth? 
If not, thanks for reading, we'll hopefully see you again next week. 

If you do want the actual truth from the man who has climbed to the summit, keep reading. Hoover doesn't pull punches. He wants you to know the REAL DEAL.  These were my takeaways from our conversation. 

There is no sponsorship lotto you can buy a ticket for. No fast track exists. I cannot learn to throw a football today and expect to quarterback the 49ers tomorrow. Too many people want to know the shortcut. They will ask, so how can I get there? Should I blog or do photos or shoot video or talk at conventions or work trade shows? The answer is yes. You should be doing all of those. One avenue for public exposure is rarely enough for potential suitors to want to give you a deal. You need to network, be known and also be reputable. You can't build a good reputation with thousands of people over night. It takes time, public vetting and hard work with no compensation. If you wouldn't do it for free, don't try to get paid for doing it. 

Confession time. When I started this blog I thought I wanted to be sponsored. I called Chad and he gave me the same info you are now getting. He asked me what I loved. I told him I loved to write and tell people about kayak fishing. He told me to chase that. He told me to fish and write. He told me to quit thinking about targeting companies and start thinking about developing what I loved. So I did. To this day I have received $0 for writing this blog. What I have received in abundance is an overwhelming network of friends, business contacts, partner companies and fishermen that have found value in what I have worked so hard to develop. It's very similar to the feeling you get when you catch a big fish on a bait or rod that you have made by hand. 

So what are some keys to getting to a place where companies will ask about you?

1. Care more about the name on the front of the jersey than the back. If your identity is wrapped up in who your sponsors are, you are doing it wrong.

2. Patience. It takes time to become noticed. In some cases, it may never happen and you need to be ok with that.

3. Work.Can't stress this enough. You have to be willing to put more in than you expect to get out. 

4. Don't posture. Brand wars, mine is better than yours, acting like a fool in social media and fights whether verbal or physical are bad news. Keep a positive attitude and represent yourself well. You are your own brand!

5. Stop trying to get free stuff. Get in the game, pay your dues, keep your nose clean, be accessible, open and honest and your time will come. People are attracted to others with passion. If you are passionate about pneumatic snowball throwers and blog about it twice a week, shoot videos and hold seminars on how to build your own, people who share that interest will seek you out. It may take some time but once they find you, if you are the real deal, they will tell their friends. Building a following takes time.

You want the formula for a Staff, Deal or Sponsorship position?


Don't spend your time looking for a loop hole. Spend your time developing your passion. It pays off much bigger in the end.

Do you have thoughts about this article you want others to know? Don't agree? Fully agree? Let me know on Facebook or in the comments section. 

Checking Out The BlackPak

Before the gear heads start saying their amens and the frugal home DIYers start condemning a price tag, I want to implore you to read the rest of this post. I want you to understand why I bought what I did. Am I saying that everyone needs this tool? Need is a strong word. I am saying that I enjoy the heck out of mine and can’t imagine not having it. Let’s get on with it.

 On deck storage for fishing gear has historically been limited to milk crates or other tubs until recently. Late last year we started seeing teasers and eventually the final product called The BlackPak from YakAttack. A 10 year vet of using milk crates as storage on my kayak had me scratching my head about whether this new storage container for kayaks warranted an $85-$125 price tag (depending on the features you order.) I read up, made a few phone calls, watched a couple of videos about it and decided I needed one. Luckily I was able to get in on one of the first orders from HOOK1 and Chad Hoover got it sent to me post haste. 15 minutes after I received it, I had it put together. For the next couple of days I continually changed the configuration, added some LED lights and got it ready for the maiden voyage. I haven't fished without it since that first trip. 

I could spend the next 1,000 words talking about what the BlackPak can do but several of those things can be duplicated by a milk crate. As the title graphic says, "This Ain't No Milkcrate". (I realize that's a double negative so before you email me about grammatical law, relax a bit. Pulitzer isn't calling anytime soon.) 

Let's get right to the good stuff. These are the things that a BlackPak gives you that you can't get out of a milk crate. (Unless you basically mod it to be your own BlackPak) 

Enclosed protection from the elements. 
Protect those soft plastics from direct sunlight. While not water tight, the BP deflects most rain, splash and other intrusive water. If water does get in, it will quickly find the exit via the drains in the bottom corners.

Keep all your stuff enclosed.
Drop a 1/4 oz bullet weight into the BP and it'll be there when you get home. Same thing for hooks, split shot, worms, lures and more. Do the same in a milk crate and well, good luck. If you happen to have lures loose, they won't find their way out the sides, get tangled on items outside the crate pressed up against it or latch on to the many open gaps. Solid on all sides, everything stays inside but the water. 

Rigging readiness. 
The BlackPak has top rails that are ready to add on GearTrac or rig straight to it with a long t-bolt. The top, bottom and sides are all made of very sturdy Starboard that you can mount something directly to. It is pre-drilled on both sides to attach the optional rod holders and because the lid is inset you aren't bumping rods in the rod holder. The top rail also adds a nice lip that allows you to mount LED lights under to keep them away from water, knock out direct light at night to your eyes but still illuminate the BP. I drilled a couple of additional holes and added an on/off switch. One last thing about the top rails, they come designed with hooks so that your bungee in your tank well can secure it. No need to buy additional straps, mess with stretch hooks or any of that other mess. The BP is really only limited by your imagination and fits in almost every sit on top kayak. You can also bungee it down to the back of lots of sit ins as well.  

This is not a cheap plastic Tupperware box. I've seen guys over 250 pounds (262 according to the video) standing and JUMPING on the BlackPak. Chad wants to make sure it is sturdy so he tries it. Don't believe me? Go here:
The BlackPak is super lightweight yet rugged and durable. You aren't going to find that for $4 at WalMart. 

Have you ever tried to make something like this yourself? Some guys can. When I say some, I mean very few. Most of us can zip tie some stuff together to make an enclosed box, sure, but to make it this sturdy, without exposed openings in the sides and corners, with rigging hooks and top rails and just the material alone you are going to spend a nice chunk of money. I did some rough calculations for 1 18" X 18" piece in black at 1/4" thick. That's $13.50 without shipping or taxes. Check it here:
You would need 6 of those. You'll have to find some way to do corners on your own. For purchase, shipping and taxes, just the sides of this are going to cost you $102.68. Better not mess up. That's for the basic sides. You don't have top rails, rod holders, corners, hardware, bungee etc to finish this out. For $85 you could get the base setup and come out ahead. See what I'm getting at here? You can make a copy but with the same quality components, it will cost you more and look and function much worse. You come out way ahead with the deluxe model for $125 too and did I mention it's also available in white now? 

I realize some folks don't have the money or want to spend the money and that's cool. But if you think you will duplicate the BlackPak by scrapping together some plastic around a milk crate, you should think again. Just because a wagon has four wheels doesn't mean it's a Ferrari. 

If you want to see one in person and are in the Dallas area, check out the Mariner-Sails show room. They are located at 11110 Stemmons Freeway, Dallas, TX  75229.

If you aren't in the Dallas area but are ready to order one, go here:


Why Do I Blog?

At this weekend's Get Together of kayak anglers and hopefuls at Lake Grapevine I visited with lots of people about kayaking, kayak fishing and this blog. I heard lots of good things, some points for improvement and one other question that came out time and time again.

"Is your website your job?" or sometimes "Do you make money doing this?"

When I gave the answer, the followup question was usually, "Really? Why?"

It became apparent that while many of you know me through the blog, you didn't know the background of how it came to be and why I do it. I've done a poor job of communicating that and the answers are very important to the success of PPF.

For those who are curious, keep reading. For those who aren't, I'll be back with some regularly scheduled content at the end of the week.

The Beginning

I finished my grad degree in August of 2012 and had been on a blistering pace of writing to finish quickly. My wife was also in school and we had two kids under the age of 8. I needed to be done with school therefore, I finished as quickly as they would allow (16 months). What I discovered during that year was my love of writing. I didn't ever think of myself as a writer but my course loads demanded thousands of words a week. When August came and my classes were done, I missed the writing. I missed being able to convey information through my keyboard, I missed the sound of the letters being clicked out on the plastic keys and I missed the connection of brain to computer screen. I decided I would start a blog.

Blogs are great outlets for writers and desiring nothing but an outlet I started a free blog on Blogger. I wouldn't be out anything but time and I could do it late at night when the kids and wife were tucked away in Sleepy Town.  My first post just said a little bit about how I got into kayak fishing and I wanted to pass it along to my kids.  I love kayak fishing and this blog would allow me to be passionate about a subject and write as much as I wanted.

As the blog started to form I found myself doing reviews, talking safety and trying to tell people in the sport and interested in the sport about the mistakes I had made along the way. I tried to give good information and unbiased information. The blog readership was starting to grow and my kayak fishing had become a new focus in my life. I didn't know the direction I wanted to take the blog, my kayak fishing and whether I should join a manufacturer team if one offered or what. So much to think about for a hobby and a late night electronic legal pad.

So what do you do when you don't know? You call someone who does. The biggest name in the sport I could think of was Chad Hoover. Many of you know Chad through , HOOK1 or through one of his media outlets like his fishing shows on WFN and NBC Sports. Chad and I had visited through Facebook a few times but I needed to have some real guidance. I messaged him and he said "Call Me."

That conversation helped me to see what he and many others felt the real value of my site was to the kayak fishing community. Having a non-biased voice that can say what I want, respectfully of course, and be honest about equipment, gear and boats was something that didn't exist in many forms. To pay the bills, people need sponsors, endorsements etc. Being as this was not my job, I just needed a few partners to help me get going.It wasn't money I was in need of (since it's a hobby), but access to product.

I visited at length with other folks familiar with the kayak fishing scene in Texas (where I am at). Guys like Rob Milam, Alan Sladek and several others encouraged me to do what I wanted to do and helped me get in front of the people I needed to talk to. I continued to weigh options, talk with Chad and formulated a game plan. The thing that kept me going was something he said in the wee hours one morning.

He said, "Be patient. Know exactly what you want and pursue it. Don't settle."

That still rings in my ears. I was looking for a partnership that so many had told me was just not a deal that existed. I needed access to kayaks for long periods of time to do reviews. I needed access to gear to do reviews. I'm not wealthy. I have debts that could make you shiver. I needed help if the blog was going to succeed. I couldn't pay for any of it.

I'll spare the details, as this is getting long and robust, but I pursued the partner I wanted, turned down other offers that didn't meet up with my needs and began working with Mariner-Sails of Dallas. Aris agreed to let me pursue my dream. He knew what my goals were and allowed me to "do my thing". I am beyond glad to work with his team. Mike and Aris and the gang at Mariner have helped me achieve things I never thought possible and access to other companies and gear I couldn't have done without their help.

At this point, the snarky people in the room make lots of assumptions so let me answer a few questions for you.

Am I paid by Mariner? No.

Do I get kick backs or commission from Mariner for recommending them? No. I get to demo their boats but that doesn't pay the bills. I still work my 8-5 for that.

Do I get to keep the boats I demo? No. I just gave them back the Outback and took home a Slayer. I keep each kayak for 6-10 weeks to get ample time in to give valuable feedback on the boats.After that, they go back, rigging and all.

Do I ever say anything negative about the products I review? Yes. I try to always give points for improvement. (How many of you guys have heard me complain about the handle position on the back of the Hobie Outback or the toe box in the Astral Brewer?)

To be clear, I have never cashed a check written out to me for this blog or anything associated with it.

So why do I do it?

I love this sport. Kayak fishing is a beautiful symphony of man and nature that no other experience I have had can match. The community of kayakers is an amazing fellowship of brothers and sisters in water that will help each other at the first opportunity. Do we have our knuckleheads? Sure. Every group does. They're few and far between with us though.  My hope is that people looking into kayak fishing will come to my site to get information before they purchase. I hope they will make purchases that they still love after three months of on the water time. I hope vets in the sport can pick up some info here and there about new products or kayaks. I hope that my safety posts will some day save a life. I hope that every person who comes to my blog knows why I do this and can tell how much I love kayak fishing.

It's a lot of work to design, write, update, review, shoot pictures, video, interview, travel to and from events all out of love for the sport but I would do it all again with no regrets if you hit the reset button. I'll wake up tomorrow and think about kayak fishing. I'll try to think of new ways to share the passion we all share with those that don't know and I'll go to sleep late late at night knowing if one person learned about kayaks and safety today it was a growth in the sport.

Will I always do this? I don't know. Things change. New opportunities arise. But I will always be an ambassador for the sport of kayak fishing, no matter that hat I wear or the kayak I paddle.

If you have any thoughts for improvement, have ideas for gear or kayak reviews or other comments feel free to leave them here or even better yet, click on one of the sharing icons below and let me know that way. Please tell your friends!

Kayak Fishing is for Girls…Too

Trip after trip on the water I meet new faces. I talk to folks from all over the state and country about kayak fishing at shows, get togethers, informal gatherings and social situations. After talking way too much and not paying attention enough, I finally realized a lesson I learned well last week and it was driven home this
morning: Kayak fishing is for girls…too.

Kayak Fishing is for everyone. I rarely see the gentler sex on the water, fishing pole in hand doing battle with the scaled phantoms so many of us guys chase. Last weekend however, I had the privilege of fishing with Nina Kavon of Team Hobie-Finland. Nina grew up around fishing. Her family owns and she now runs a fishing shop in Finland. She can also catch bass with the best of them which she proved by winning a big bass award at the 2nd Annual Hobie Worlds last Fall. Nina has the instincts, science, and desire to be on the water that all of my kayak fishing buddies do. She’s not the first that I’ve met though. Just the most recent. A handful of female anglers have shown their prowess in our sport but it was a group of seven year olds that opened my eyes.

This morning I presented kayak fishing, the science of fishing and the motivation to work hard to accomplish dreams to an elementary school. Almost 200 kids attended my sessions and during each period, the small group was asked the same question: What do you want to be when you grow up?

Keep in mind this question was setting me up for a “work hard to accomplish your dreams” segue but four little girls sitting together stopped me cold.  Each one of them answered the question the same. “I want to be a kayak fisher.” It never dawned on me that little girls might want to do something most little boys think is cool! I have a four year old daughter and she loves kayaks but I always attributed that to osmosis. These little girls at the school had 15 minutes of hearing about the sport so many of us love and they were ready to jump in. I thought that was so cool! After mulling it over through the day today, I realized I have neglected talking about cool things that might apply to the female readers of the site. Or even the guys who care about style and design.

Today I would like to rectify that. As much as I can currently. 

Pink ConSeal and Shock Cord
Chad Hoover over at HOOK1 started to recognize this trend long before my brain cells connected and started carrying bungee (shock cord) in different colors. Most of us guys look for a cool colored boat but see the accessories as utilitarian (with a few exceptions, Walker N.) Being utilitarian, most of the kayak accessories on the market are black. Black is easy, it doesn’t get dirty quickly and has a manly Darth Vader look to it. Some of the folks out there are looking for a little more pop in their accessories and that is available more and more. The pink shock cord will add a dash of color to any kayak but looks great on a lime green kayak. It even looks good on camo! 

Chad has been working on expanding colors in not only shock cord but also sound dampening materials and clothing options. He’s helping the industry expand and listening to you ladies. Let us know what you’d like to see. Leave a comment here, on Facebook or at the HOOK1 site.

I can’t speak for Chad, but for me, you’ll get results a lot quicker if you tell me what you’d like. I’m listening now. Let me know!

Kayak Bass Fishing Open Looks to be Largest Ever

Always looking to push the limits, Chad Hoover of HOOK1 and Kayak Bass Fishing may have out done himself already in 2013.

Set to start on March 14, 2013, the Kayak Bass Fishing Open and the Kayak Bass Fishing Invitational following is assumed to be the largest freshwater kayak fishing tournament(s) ever held and before it’s all said and done, will be possibly the largest kayak fishing tournament regardless of water type. The venue is a 100 mile area of the Santee Cooper chain of lakes and is centered in Cross, South Carolina. Black’s Fish Camp will be the host site (1370 Black’s Camp Rd. Cross, SC, 29436) and cater to up to 300 anglers. Not all entrants will stay at Black’s though many of the festivities will be centered there.

The KBF Open is the last qualifier for the KBF Invitational which starts on March 16th at a different, private water venue nearby. Both the Open and the Invitational have $100 entry fees with approximately 80% of that paying top finishers. The remaining 20% will go to fund future events and charitable contributions to groups like Heroes on the Water, a group that works with disabled service men and women through kayak fishing across the country.

The Open will be a two day event. Day 1 starts at 30 minutes before sunrise and ends at 4:30PM. Standings after Day 1 will be determined by a Catch-Photograph-Release (CPR) format of each angler’s best two fish. The Day 1 leader will get an automatic bid into the KBF Invitational and continue on to fish Day 2 where they will be joined by the other 100 top finishers (depending on ties) for that day. At the start of Day 2, all previous catches are erased and all anglers start at zero. Starting again at 30 minutes before sunrise, Day 2 goes until 5:30PM. The winner of Day 2 (also a CPR format) will win the Open and proceed with the top 10-15 anglers to the Invitational the next day. It is estimated that the top 20 anglers of Day 2 will receive a check though payout is based on percentages and number of entries. For all the official rules of both the Open and Invitational please visit or find Kayak Bass Fishing Open or Kayak Bass Fishing Invitational on Facebook.

The KBF Invitational will also be a two day event but will be held in Summerville, South Carolina at the private waters of VIP Adventures. These waters hold trophy bass and will up the stakes for the grand prize. The champion after two days will receive an estimated $8,000 in prize money, a new Wilderness Systems kayak, a new Bending Branches paddle, a $250 gift certificate to HOOK1 and many other prizes.
Being known as the Grand Champion of the Kayak Bass Fishing Invitational is in the hopes and dreams of many as anglers from Texas, New Jersey and other far away locales are planning caravans and overnight trips to make sure they have a chance to be crowned champion. With one of the most illustrious payouts ever in freshwater kayaking, it’s no wonder so many are cashing in a week of vacation and a year’s worth of kitchen passes to make the journey. It will be a memory none will soon forget.


If you have further questions please connect with Chad Hoover on Facebook, on Twitter @knotright, on Ustream : KayakFishingGearTV or on